Comments on: On Being a Total Creep in Japan

By: ambr

ambr — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:56:19 +0000

This is great

By: owwls

owwls — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 15:03:19 +0000

When you are too scared to say no or too drunk to mean it, a yes still doesn’t transcend the body language and context. Im merely advocating for the good judgement required for a decent human being not to take advantage of it.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 10:07:47 +0000

As I said before, cases where women say “no”, say “maybe”, or don’t say anything are definitely date rape. I’m only interested in talking about the situation proposed by the author where a woman says yes, and it’s somehow still rape.

By: the pigman

the pigman — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 09:51:06 +0000

These attitudes (that women have a right to be exposed to predatory male behaviour) are “way out there”. They would be in the UK, and they are moreso out there in Japan. Without indulging in too many wild generalisations, I know PLENTY of Japanese women who have had difficulty saying no (or worse, have had difficulty saying it loud of clear enough that these predatory men are actually willing to back off and examine their behaviour.)

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 09:43:04 +0000

@owwls
What is your definition of “deliberate manipulation and coercion”? If a woman says “yes” to sex, in what case would you still consider the sex non-consensual?

@Sophelia
Thanks, I’m familiar with the definition of date rape. I’m not talking about cases where a woman says no or is passed out. Those cases are obviously rape. What I’m questioning is this idea that in some cases “yes” actually means “no.” Unless we’re talking about obtaining a “yes” through physical violence or threats of violence aren’t we invalidating their decision in our attempt to “protect” them?

By: Sophelia

Sophelia — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:37:18 +0000

Word.
Elizabeth, I think you need to do a bit of reading about what date rape is.

By: owwls

owwls — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 04:02:36 +0000

This post has nothing to say about consensual sex. It’s about deliberate manipulation and coercion. Which is creepy shit. Not sure where you’re getting the idea that having a few drinks with a guy you want to sleep with is being presented as a problem.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 02:56:06 +0000

No, I’m saying that women have a right to drink and have sex, and are perfectly capable of saying yes or no to those. This underlying idea that men are aggressive and manipulating and the poor weak women need to be protected from them is sexist. Don’t get me wrong “no” means “no” I totally agree, but similarly “yes” means “yes.” If you claim otherwise you’re essentially holding men but not women responsible for their actions while drunk, which is a sexist double standard that doesn’t accomplish anything except undermining women’s rights.

By: owwls

owwls — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 02:02:34 +0000

It’s not insulting. You go out for drinks, keep refilling their glass, make them feel like they are ok to get very drunk with you, then when they’re about to pass out you start making out with them. But I guess that method is more dignified than asking men not to pressure women to drink or have sex with you? Your post is insulting because you’re basically insisting that women have a “right” to get date raped.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 01:06:05 +0000

This article makes some good points, but at closer inspection I disagree with some of the underlying views. The suggestion that you can “get women drunk and coerce them into saying yes” is insulting. Adult women are totally capable of saying,
A: Yes or no to another drink and,
B: Yes or no to sex.
Suggesting otherwise is pratonizing and robs women of their agency.